What’s one indication that a church has become more of a worldly business than a church? When it starts getting involved in litigation. After Today Tonight showed three “exclusive” stories last week claiming that 5 of 9 Australian Idol finalists were members of Hillsong Church and that Hillsong “encouraged” it’s members to vote for these 5, Hillsong are refusing to rule out legal action.
What does a business gain by pursuing legal action? Well, money of course. They’re either looking for damages or protecting their profits. In business it all comes down to money. But the decision to sue for damages over a controversial issue is one that has to be very carefully thought out – otherwise the act of suing may cause you more damages than what the act you’re suing for did in the first place.
That’s business though. For a church, should money be the sole driver of the way you conduct yourselves? No! The church is called to reach out to society, to go beyond the walls of the church and proclaim the gospel to the nations.
The church in general (but particularly Hillsong) already has a reputation for wanting money. And like any ministry, money is needed to fund it. But this reputation, in my experience, is part of the reason that non-church goers don’t go to church. Let me put that another way, the way that it should be thought of: because churches have a reputation of wanting money, secular society as a whole ignores Christianity like it’s a cult. Let’s not care that people don’t go to our churches. We should be caring that they are not seeing the truth of the gospel because of the way we are acting!!
What sort of damages could Hillsong sustain from Today Tonight’s “stories”? It could well turn a few more people off church. Others would see it as frivolous reporting and, ignoring it, stick to what they already thought about church. Hillsong may lose a few members, and thus a few extra donations into the offering. But because this is a controversial issue – and I’d say the majority of the members of society are not on Hillsong’s side – litigating against Today Tonight would fuel a storm of criticism against Hillsong and the church in general, resulting in even more and more people turning away from the idea of church.
But remember, church is not the point here. We should not be caring about getting more members in our churches. And many churches don’t. But many churches do. If Hillsong decides to sue, they’ll be showing the rest of the Christian population – and in fact, every single person in this world – that they care more about money (i.e. getting members) than they do about proclaiming the gospel. And because that would put them in direct contradiction to the Bible, it’s a sticky situation.
Hillsong, we’re supposed to be reaching out to society, not turning them against us. As Brennen Manning said, “The greatest single cause of atheism today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him with their lifestyle. That’s what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” Don’t cause an unbelieving world to deny Jesus because of the way you conduct business. Imagine what you’d have to answer to on Judgement Day.
Hillsong, please don’t sue, for the love of mankind.
– Hillsong church may sue over Idol vote-rigging claims, The Daily Telegraph, Saturday 13th October 2007
Hey your reasoning sounds OK to me and Brennan Manning says it like it is – his books are very impacting, but your initial judgement and willingness to believe “it must be true if the press says something bad about Hillsong” leaves me wondering about your heart.
Hi Judy, thanks for your comment. The story that I linked to quotes a Hillsong spokeswoman as saying “the option of further action is always available” – I would take this to be referring to legal action. The reporter has made the same conclusion (of course, she may have had other sources as well). So at this stage, I am believing that particular news story, but I am hoping & praying that nothing goes ahead.
You guys all know nothing.
Were all just animals, mammals in fact. DNA proves evolution. The bible sucks and made by man hundreds of years after jesus’ death. 194 condradictions in the new testament. What about every other religion? do they all go to hell? nice. You say God will judge on judgement day so dont judge another. Judy is judging Tim. Everyone judges because were animals. If were mammals and go to heaven, do mosquitoes go to mosquitoe heaven. how did noah get every tree, plant, animal existing today on that boat? God flooded the whole world for 40 days. No evolution huh? How did Aborigines get here huh? swim? Word of God??? bunch of letters put together. Jesus had a magnificent life. Much like Buddas and Mohammed’s and Moses’ or Martin Luther King. Who you going to follow? Jesus? He makes you feel good yeh? Ok good I’m glad your brainwashed. Anything said or done in the bible is a witness statement. Highly entertaining but not accurate. remember 194 condradictions in the new testament. Thats gotta mean something. So do Muslims go to hell? please tell me either yes or no because I know you have a hard time answering that question. Is there really a God? who knows. Us humans think we know everything and we dont. still just dogs on two legs but were getting smarter. Its possible God exists. The universe is beautiful, like its been created. But to think the way you think in your little world of christianity, blocking out the questions that so easily show its a croc of shit, is so narrow minded. As narrow minded and believing the old greek gods like Thor or beleiving that the world is flat. Loch ness monster? Witches – burn them at the stake their evil? Not mixing milk and meat like Jews? Praying five times a day and fasting. Feeding 500 people with a loaf of bread. There is a church of Curt Cobain! Crazy huh? talking in tounges – crazy. have you read the book of revalations lately? Do you beleive it? your nuts too! Ahh, I see what your saying, its your relationship with God. Does he ever say anything? Cmon? When I was a devoted born again I tried and tried for him to say something. I made up words for him, that was my conscience really. I can still speak in tounges. It still sounds exactley the same but Im not brainwashed anymore. It sounds like garbage, its not a language but everyone at church believed it was. hahaha fools. haha. Whats the difference between you guys, Buddists, Jews, Hindus, muslims and those who attend the Curt Cobain church? Nothing. You all feel the same power and experience an epiphany like I did. Sad sad brainwashed lemmings. The church and the bible made me feel so guilty for being my natural mammal self. Some of you humans enjoy that environment. You only stay if you like it. Good on you, Im glad it works for you. It took years off my life and did me damage like others I know. I hate you fucking pricks. I hate the arrogance and pride. The arrogance ignores intelligence and science and the pride is just so patronising. What will your response say? “I see you have some issues. You sound upset and Im sorry if you had a bad experience. blah blah” and more condesending bullshit. Answer my questions you ignorant lemming. Are we mammals? Is there a line between humans and animals? Noah? DNA? Do you believe in the whole bible? Are these words of the devil? Are you praying to your conscience or to God. Are Muslims praying to there conscience or to Allah or to the devil? I sthe jibberish coming out of my mouth called tounges really a prayer to God in another language?
Thanks Dave. Happy to chat to you as long as you can stop calling me an ignorant lemming.
What are these 194 contradictions? You’ve got to back that claim up with the facts.
“So do Muslims go to hell? please tell me either yes or no because I know you have a hard time answering that question.”
Yes.
Your other questions:
“how did noah get every tree, plant, animal existing today on that boat?”
I don’t know.
“How did Aborigines get here huh? swim? Word of God???”
I don’t know.
“have you read the book of revalations lately? Do you beleive it?”
Yes, and yes.
“Does he ever say anything? Cmon?”
Oh yes!
“Is there a line between humans and animals?”
Yes.
“Do you believe in the whole bible?”
Yes.
“Are these words of the devil?”
Your words? Possibly.
“Are you praying to your conscience or to God.”
To God…
“Are Muslims praying to there conscience or to Allah or to the devil?”
Good question.
“I sthe jibberish coming out of my mouth called tounges really a prayer to God in another language?”
Not anymore.
Questions for you. Does it matter that I don’t know how Noah got every animal on the boat?
And tell me, how do you explain a friend of mine on a walking frame getting up and walking after receiving healing prayer? Who did that?
Does it matter that I don’t know how Noah got every animal on the boat?
I ve heard that one too. If there is no answer, you must beleive God has an answer. Pretty unfruitful answer. What does matter for you is that not caring, or believing that God has an answer that isnt in the bible is ignorant and therefore, well, stupid. And incorrect.
ok time to go round in circles. remember these questions above because I’ll contradict you.
So if the words sound exactley the same (tounges), then why is it a language before and jibberish now? Sounds the same. same same same.
DNA? please? 1 + 1 = 2 doesnt it? science works! you seriously cant deny it. Science drives you to work and runs your computer. DNA is real. DNA proves evolution. Did jesus create science? No,but maybe the creator did. Better answer. Science is the best way to see somthing has been created. But science also rules for evolution. Against the word of God. We know science works so we have to believe it. You cant just ignore it can you?
You say ‘I dont know’ to noah and aborigines but ‘yes’ to a line between animals. Are you curious? Or do you shove the question aside? Read the bible, it’ll tell you the whole world was filled with water so that there was no land. Noah got everything alive today on a boat and then went to every island and distributed flora and fauna once the water dropped. Cmon? Give me something? You cant just say “I dont know” and then say with confidence that the bible is doctrine.
Judy is Judging Tim.
Are Muslims praying to there conscience or to Allah or to the devil?
Why should I beleive in the jesus faith over islam or any of the other trillion idiot faiths?
-And tell me, how do you explain a friend of mine on a walking frame getting up and walking after receiving healing prayer? Who did that?
There is no evidence for or against proving a creator exists so God could have done it. More probably it was the work of an incredible mind. Belief is a very powerful tool. The brain is amazing when you tap in. Thats what all you religious guys are doing when you tap in (or praying so to speak). Miracle healings dont just come in the form of pentecostal churchs (if thats what you are). Its been in eastern culture for a long time. Che energy they call it. It requires intense meditation to focus the energy from the brain from the intended target. Just like healing in church. A buddhist monk can throw a pinball machine ball through a plate of glass inchs thick from an inch away. the brain uses electricity to make your hand move in the neuromuscular region. it can use a lot more energy if told to to wake up your mates leg with asleep neurons. An old mate of mine fought off cancer with his brain (not in faith) and that was crazy! I myself have been healed by God! Yeh I had these dots on my neck when I was 14 and full of faith and prayed a crazy prayer with my leader. I chucked a spastic on the floor as if I was so overwhelmed and sweating. After 15 mins of prayer and craziness half of them wiped away instantly and the rest went after a day! Maybe it was God. Maybe it was the brain. But since I gave away Christianity I have seen miracles in other faiths or faith in oneself. Nothing in Christianity yet can prove to me that it is divine over any other religion. And dont go saying its Your relationship with God that counts because other religions have a relationship and just as convinced as you.
The devil doesnt speak through me. If you were to look into my eyes you would agree with me. The devil is a tool to keep harmony amongst the community with fear. No one wants to go to hell. That guilt and fear really hurt me from the church. The church wasn’t my type of thing. I know its your type of thing and you fit there. I was serious when I said Im happy for you. But it aint for others. Really, it aint. I have a Hillsong friend who feels so guilty like I did and it hurts me to see him hurt. People slot into whichever type of faith that suits them and thats constructive for them. But some people slot in, then change and dont feel at home with their faith anymore, but cant leave because of massive, massive fear and guilt. And now get this! After you finally break free from the church and its guilt, you feel like youve emancipated! a wonderous feeling just like giving your life to jesus! Now I am ME! No more burden! When I was on the fence, undecided about if I should stay or go, I told God and everyone else I would give my agonising conscience the benefit of the doubt and live without the church for a week and instead, be myself without trying to be jesus. That was fair and a good way to find out. It was hard breaking ties with the church. I felt so guilty letting them down but I was fooled no longer. I found a new light. I felt like I had amnesia and just woken up from hypnosis. Wow, how did I get here? This is bliss for me. Just like that church is for you. No one is going to hell. There is no devil.
If anything, Hillsong is the devil. Market place in the temple? They have a market for books but no free library to borrow things from. Jesus destroyed the market in the temple remember? Brian Houston is an evil son-of-a-bitch if greed and deception is evil. decieving the public telling them that a tithe is needed. direct debit periodical payments. free volunteers. Nice Masarati Brian. Nice Rolex. Capitalism. They had me hook line and sinker.
Ive seen believers of all faiths, even pyramid sellers have this thing about them. It drives them. Belief. I know exactly how you all feel. I really really do. You want to share your drive with another. You are totally absent from the acknowledgment of possessing massive amounts of arrogance and pride.
Anyway, Im tired, answer all my questions this time please and we’ll speak again.
194 contradictions from http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/bible/contrant.htm
Hey Dave,
I removed your printed list of contradictions because they were rather long – the link is still there though. I haven’t read through all of them or tried to work out a plausible explanation, but on first thoughts, the gospels were written by eyewitnesses, and obviously people remember and interpret things differently. This explains a great number of them.
Without looking any of the verses up (because all that list has done is print verses out of context):
The angel told Joseph. Mt.1:20.
The angel told Mary. Lk.1:28.
“Contradictions” like that are not contradictions at all, unless they say “The angel told Joseph but did not tell Mary”! The angel could have told both of them and Matthew and Luke decided to report from different angles, or they may have even been different situations (probably not the case with this one though).
There is one “God”. 1 Tim.2:5; Jms.2:19.
There are three. 1 Jn.5:7.
I’m sure you understand the concept of the Trinity.
And, haha, whoever compiled this obviously has a sense of humour
:
Jesus/God said, “You fool…”. Lk.12:20; Mt.23:17.
Paul calls people fools. 1 Cor.15:36.
Call someone a fool and you go to hell. Mt.5:22.
Now, I am going to read through them all and look them up and work out why they really aren’t contradictions (when I have time), but at first glance, the person who compiled these is a fool. They’ve taken verses out of context, they haven’t gone back to the Greek and Hebrew to find the real meaning, and they’ve listed contradictions that aren’t contradictions. For the majority of these so called “contradictions”, honestly, what a waste of time.
Here’s another one:
Jesus said that his blood was shed for many. Mk.14:24.
Jesus said his blood was shed for his disciples. Lu.22:20.
Jesus didn’t say that his blood was shed ONLY for his disciples. If I say “His blood was shed for me”, am I saying that it was shed only for me?
Honestly, Dave, you must be able to see the absurdity of these.
Now another thing I don’t get is why I have to answer your questions with an answer you haven’t heard before. Guess what, I’ve heard that one before too! Asking the same question and expecting a different answer must be one of the definitions of insanity, and I’d be interested to know why you do it.
Of course the alternative could be that you’re asking not because you want to know the answer but because you want to catch me out – which I should advise is pointless. If this is an argument, you’ll probably win. We’ll get to a point where there’s a question inherently important to you that I really can’t answer. But then one day, after you’ve gone around this circle thousands of times, you’ll realise that it’s all been a waste of time and you should have just looked at the proof you have of God’s existence, including what he’s done for you, rather than trying to analyse everything to a point that, as humans, we simply can’t do!
I do believe God has an answer to how the Ark worked logistically. But – and I’m sure you’ve heard this one before as well – the answer to that question doesn’t change what I know and have experienced. It’s simply not a question I’m asking, and I don’t know how I could possibly find out the answer either, so I’m not bothering with it.
Now before I move on, you seem to imply that anything that God could possibly say should be in the Bible. The Bible doesn’t tell me who I’m going to marry. It also didn’t tell me to apply for the job I applied for a couple of months ago. Likewise, it doesn’t answer your question about how Noah logistically got every animal on the boat. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t know the answer (of course he does) and it also doesn’t mean I’m ignorant, stupid, or incorrect.
The church sucks. Honestly, it does. There is so much it could do better. There is so much it has stuffed up on. I notice that everything you are bringing up seems to stem from how you’ve been treated by the church. Did you know that there are countless books written by people who have given up on the church but not God? Go out and find one, I think you might find it interesting.
Look, for me, and I hope you’re still reading this because there are better things I could be spending my time on, I’ve realised that I have to focus more on what the Bible says rather than what the church says. For instance, the church seems to encourage a picture of Jesus that is always calm, when in actual fact Jesus got angry, he used sarcasm – he wasn’t always nice. I’m reading a book on this at the moment (No More Christian Nice Guy by Paul Coughlin). I honestly feel what you’re saying about trying to be like Jesus. Which Jesus were you trying to be like?
By the way, if I’ve missed a question, it either means I don’t know the answer, I think you already know the answer, I don’t think the question warrants me spending time answering it, or I simply missed it while responding to other things. If the latter, please feel free to ask it again.
Ok good we’re on the same page on a few things
For the 194 contradictions – Because I didn’t research them I cant be biased if they are really contradictions, or misunderstandings or misconceptions. Maybe some are absurd and some undeniable. I did find these ones interesting:
46. Jesus said that Salvation was only for the Jews. Mt.15:24; Mt.10:5,6; Jn.4:22; Rom.11:26,27.
Paul said that salvation was also for the Gentiles. Acts 13:47,48.
47. Repentance is necessary. Acts 3:19; Lu.3:3.
Repentance is not necessary. Rom.11:29.
48. Non-believers obtain mercy. Rom.11:32.
Only believers obtain mercy. Jn.3:36; Rom.14:23.
Only baptized believers obtain mercy. Mk.16:16.
Mercy cannot be predetermined. Rom.9:18.
49. All who call on the “Lord” will be saved. Rom.10:13; Acts 2:21.
Only those predestined will be saved. Acts 13:48; Eph.1:4,5; 2 Thes.2:13; Acts 2:47.
50. Jesus said he would not cast aside any that come to him. Jn.6:37.
Jesus said that many that come to him will be cast aside. Mt.7:21-23.
51. Salvation comes by faith and not works. Eph.2:8,9; Rom.11:6; Gal.2:16; Rom.3:28.
Salvation comes by faith and works. Jms.2:14,17,20.
52. The righteous have eternal life. Mt.25:46.
The righteous are barely saved. 1 Pet.4:18.
There are no righteous. Rom.3:10.
53. Believe and be baptized to be saved. Mk.16:16.
Be baptized by water and the spirit to be saved. Jn.3:5.
Endure to the end to be saved. Mt.24:13.
Call on the name of the “Lord” to be saved. Acts 2:21; Rom.10:13.
Believe in Jesus to be saved. Acts 16:31.
Believe, then all your household will be saved. Acts 16:31.
Hope and you will be saved. Rom.8:24.
Believe in the resurrection to be saved. Rom.10:9.
By grace you are saved. Eph.2:5
By grace and faith you are saved. Eph.2:8.
Have the love of truth to be saved. 2 Thes.2:10.
Mercy saves. Titus 3:5.
54. Backsliders are condemned. 2 Pet.2:20.
Backsliders are saved regardless. Jn.10:27-29.
55. Forgive seventy times seven. Mt.18:22.
Forgiveness is not possible for renewed sin. Heb.6:4-6.
I checked out a few of them and it does seem unclear who gets saved and who doesn’t. We cant judge because we’re so confused!
Ill leave it to you manipulate the contradictions so there not contradictions because my point is already made by me and by you. The bible is a bunch of letters, a statement from an eyewitnesses. So untrustworthy, so manipulated, so exaggerated and so far from the truth. I suppose you can get over that and have Jesus as a role model because, no matter how warped the bible may be, he was still a revolutionist and led an extraordinary example. But, So did Moses and Mohammed and buddha and martin luther king joan of ark etc times a trillion (my favorite number).
Noah and his bloody ark – Cant you see that this is a story that sounded good at the time but now is totally unfeasible? Like the world is flat. It was written by a man afterall… Your words “not bothering with it” is directly linked to arrogance or ignorance. There is an answer. Evolution. But youve ignored that question too. I wont ask again about DNA and how it proves evolution. You said I “should have just looked at the proof you have of God’s existence” and that for me is evolution! The way the world has been created in evolution is so incredibly marvelous. And to use your words, evolution is proven to a point, as humans, we simply have done it!
I dont need to find one of those books. I have read things like a ‘conversations with god’ but he’s off his head. I havent given up on God, God is just too big to fit in a bible. Science is Gods bible. It is being created everyday. It didn’t stop when your bible stopped. It just becomes more refined. Think of the bible to be written by philosophers. Philosophers come up with an idea that needs to be proven for it to become science. Some of the bible is out dated. Some of it has good teachings.
This sentence of yours “The angel could have told both of them and Matthew and Luke decided to report from different angles, or they may have even been different situations ” – is a philosophy.
Philosophers come before scientists, but scientists prove us correct or incorrect.
Good Im glad you dont like Hillsong. What Jesus was I trying to be like? Nice question. My Jesus I suppose was my leader above me in the church. Trying to be the generic Hillsonger took its toll on me (but I’m not sure if you understand how it felt for me. Do you?). Everything I am bringing up has stemmed from my association your right. But… and its a big but, you still think non-christians are going to hell. And that maybe these are words of the devil. I am a very ‘just’ man today and much more like jesus than those in that so called church. But I am still going to hell.
Words of the devil can be found from a link on your page. Im not sure if you control the ads on your page. This is an extract from Roland Weinlands homepage in the FAQ section:
http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=26
[God’s Tithe:
The second area of repentance/change is that which involves a person’s obedience to God in giving God His tithe (10 percent) of income. This is a tithe of one’s net income (after taxes). The taxes are not in our control, but belong to the government to which we are all subject. We have no power over that portion of our income that is taken as taxes, and Jesus Christ said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. We are responsible for what is under our control and management.
Tithes are not collected locally as with so many churches in traditional Christianity, but are sent to the headquarters of God’s Church. It is God’s Church that will determine how God is leading the Church and use His tithes according to His work and His will. Many ask where to send God’s tithes. All tithes are sent to:
Church of God–PKG
P.O. Box 14447
Cincinnati, OH 45250
U.S.A.
For those overseas, only Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands collect tithes for the Church in these countries. All other countries should send tithes to the U.S.A. in the form of money orders, cashier’s check (cheque), or even personal bank drafts. All funds should be made payable to: Church of God – PKG. ]
Do you agree that this is deception?
Do you believe that this guy has megalomania?
Does the bible warn against phony prophets like him?
So if the words sound exactley the same (tounges), then why is it a language before and jibberish now? Sounds the same. same same same.
Yes I am trying to corner you with questions you ignore. I find it interesting to feel your brain short circuit. I find it interesting how the escape route is always the personal God/man relationship as what matters. I want to see how far I can push and how much I can contradict you (win) to see you still hold ground. I know from the begining how silly your faith is, and how silly the followers are. The Quran is much more tighter and beleivable than the Word of God (man). As a philosopher, I just find it totally intriguing how the brain can be brainwashed. I feel so incredibly wiser than those in a faith. Because my eyes are now uncovered. Thats why I ask the question:
Why should I beleive in the jesus faith over islam or any of the other trillion idiot faiths?
I know why you chose to ignore my questions. You ignore them to me AND yourself! I know why you squirm out of answering them with comments like “I don’t think the question warrants me spending time answering it”. Its because you can self-capitalise by being a christian. You have a web page and about to do radio, and have a respectable position within your community. If what your community beleives in is false, and you were to admit that, then you wouldn’t be able to do what you do. And you would be nobody. Even if you were to accept the fact that your faith is a continuation of an old law manipulated by leaders over the centuries resulting in a distant branch of christianity so far from its originator, as well as accepting the proves of science, I think you would still hold your position and fake it. Like them pastors at hillsong who along the way found out its a croc but what else would they do? They have a family now and a position in the church. I believe Brian houston once believed! You are exactley the same. You IGNORE now, you will IGNORE later!!! To everyone including yourself! You dont think the question warrants?! It warrants for the reason above. You even said that I’ll probably win! And you still ignore! And still continue! For only one reason – self capitalism… Kingdom of Jesus?? You know its false. Kingdom of you!
If I were to stay in the hillsong church I would be massive by 5 years ago. I was on stage preaching within a year and a half of being a christian and at age 15. But now, I dont have that position I would have had. I could easily be a preacher if I were to embrace the faith. But its fake, and now I’m a philosopher. Without a position, but also without deception.
I dont like the guilt stricken ego manipulation that comes from churchs or bible bashers. These are the 2 reasons for why I am writing.
Someone wiser than me would say – “Dave, why cant you let it go? Bad shit happens all the time in the world. At least Hillsong does some good as well as bad”
I suppose my response is that this is a part of me now. I am a philosopher with feelings against religions. Religions hurt and make racism and war. Being in a religion or a gang or just believing in anything, will give you an enemy or opposition. My opposition I suppose is bias and all of its synonyms. And in favour of truth and understanding.
Why? Because “Understanding eliminates pain”. (and so does ignorance)
If Jesus was the way I would go that way. Please do your best to convert me. That is your job description.
I would like to, but cannot be blissfully ignorant.
So I am left with understanding the truth. I am humble enough to accept being incorrect at any time. As long as the truth prevails, thats all that matters.
Analysing everything to a point. Thats me, the philosopher, and what the church has made me.
I read this, wondering if any of you are actually involved in Hillsong itself.
As a strong christian, i automatically have a bias to the church.
Obviously, but i’ve read all your points with an open veiw.
I’ve heard that quote from Brennen Manning before, and i think it’s very true, the way some christians make such a negative impact on people. No wonder they are turned away from church, i myself have ha points in my life, where people in chruch have upset me, and it’s caused me to turn away for a while.
But let me give you this, from a first hand veiw of things. The one thing in my life, that i know is real is the love thyat Jesus Christ has for me, and i understand that not everyone believs this, and i’m not putting them down in any way at all, it’s just what i believe.
And The one thing i know, the only thing i know, that cannot be taken away from me, is the Love of Jesus Christ, the amazing plan he has for my life, the amazing things he’s already donw in my life.
Most of it, i cannot even begin to describe.
I understand that churches have not always made right choices, but being a christian, i stick by the idea that churches soul purpose is to bring an answer of hope, to a hurting and dieing world, to give people a reason for life, to place purpose and value upon every indeviduals life, no matter where they have been. I don’t believe in holding down peoples past, as that has been done to me before, but infact, building up an indeviduals future.
Most of the time, i can’t even begin to understand half of the stuff in the bible, but i know that the word of God is there to encourage me, to speak Gods truth into my life, to give me hope, a mission, and to teach me to live the right way.
I go to a church in the UK, which has branched directrly from Hillsong London.
I understand all the bad media, and i’m not the type of person to get involved in large debates over pointless things.
But i give my tithe every week, as the bible has tought me, and i do not ask where my money is going.
I do this because i’m living for a cause greater than myself, i give my money to the church which i see as my home, where i am planted, and trust that it is put towards the right things.
I’m only 17, and most likely out of my depth within this conversation. But i just felt i needed to share this.
That even though i’m ‘only 17′ already i’ve lived most of my life, with a passion for having peoples lives saved, for seeing lives transform.
I’m on a team at church called the ‘New Christians Team’ which deal with people from the point of coming into church,, to making a commitment to changign their lives, and then following them up, to make sure they are in a solid healthy place to start growing, and reaching tehir full potential in God.
And i can tell you this, i’d much rater stand there at church, and see lives being changed every week, than anything else i could imagine doing.
The greatest gift, i believe that someone can have is the Love of God in their hearts, and the understanding that Jesus Christ has already saved them. To me nothnig else compares to that. And it’s the only thing that nobody can ever take away from me.
Hey thats cool Cicely-Grace!
Glad your doing what you want!
*If you ever dont feel like doing it dont feel guilty!*
I was in Hillsong from age 13-16 and it was great at first but ended up fucking me up and taking a long time to heal. Many others have had the same experience and a mate of mine commited suicide 2 months ago and was a member… Another overdosed on herion and never touched it before finding hillsong. Another of mine is in and out of jail. Another a pyromaniac. Another became a wizard(?) If you want to understand why then post your email. I thought I was helping people but it was a temporary false hope I gave and ends up with less hope than before.
Tim’s not in hillsong, somewhere else, and I still like him regardless of our disagreements.
Having such a passion for something can hurt when you find it is decietful…
Dave
Tim, you are terribly niaive if you think Hsong is a genuine religion. Have a look at Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves
If you walk into the main Hillsong shop at Norwest in Sydney you are accosted by CD and Tee Shirt sellers.
What Houston and his crew have done is to totally destroy the word and meaning of what a house of God is.
It’s just a money making exercise and the left hand of Satan. Beware.
Ok so I’m a few years late on these comments but if a church is being maligned by a tv network then they have a right to use the legal system to protect their name, that’s why we have a legal system. It isn’t about money, it’s about reputation.
And Joshua, why do you sit in a seat of judgment of other peoples hearts, if anything, that is unchristian. God knows their thoughts and intents of their hearts but you establish yourself as judge.
As for Jesus going into the temple to cast out all who bought and sold, you show a lack of understanding in that too. The thing that upset Jesus was that they were stopping people from coming to God.
When people arrived, they had to go through money changers that would rip them off. They had to buy birds and animals to sacrifice and the sellers were ripping them off. They had to make sacrifices to atone for their sins and the moneychangers and sellers of the sacrifices (animals) were ripping the people off. They were in effect stopping/hindering people from making the sacrifices for atonement. Selling a t-shirt and a cd to people in the foyer of a church to people who want a cd to help them get closer to God in worship hardly falls into the category of stopping people from drawing near to God. They are not accosted as you say. You have to walk into their store.
Houston has destroyed the meaning of what a house of God is you say??? The new testament changes the game completely anyway with God dwelling inside of Christians and not the temple. Your body is now the temple so again you show ignorance in your understanding of the Bible.
Hillsong is not a religion, it’s the name of a Christian church.
Hillsong yes has one big building, but have you not taken time to look at churches such as seven day adventise that outright own hospitals schools, age care facilities and alot of land almost in each council region. or the mormon church that owns so much land and can send free stuff out adn adds on tv??
The catholic church owns more land that any other organisation in the church. You are quick to look at the size of hillsong but in fact it is a very small church worldwide, and does not own alot and impacts and helps more then you would first notice.
But if any organisation should have money it should be the church at least it is helping to feed the hungry and clothe the naked where I am sure coke or aldi’s will ever offer anything to you if you were in need.
Just a thought.